by Cranekick
OMG thank you both! Trying to find that rule was killing me. :)↧
Reply: Mice and Mystics:: Rules:: Re: Encounter Card Clarification.
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Reply: Mice and Mystics:: Rules:: Re: Rules questions.
RMGreen wrote:
Knife Strike reads: "You may use this ability instead of performing this mouse's normal battle action. This mouse attacks once with each knife or dagger it has equipped."
So in replacing your normal Battle action, you are allowed to make multiple attacks, one for each dagger or knife equipped. I would still consider this to be the use of an Action. Even though the card doesn't explicitly say to use the card 'as an action' in the way that Major Heal does, I think it strongly implies that using Knife Strike requires that you expend a Battle action. Which wasn't exactly the question, I know. ;^)
So in replacing your normal Battle action, you are allowed to make multiple attacks, one for each dagger or knife equipped. I would still consider this to be the use of an Action. Even though the card doesn't explicitly say to use the card 'as an action' in the way that Major Heal does, I think it strongly implies that using Knife Strike requires that you expend a Battle action. Which wasn't exactly the question, I know. ;^)
I agree 100%. I would read it as meaning that you declare a battle action, then play this ability. When triggered, this ability "replaces the normal battle action" with a different battle action...one in which you conduct one attack for each knife you have equipped.
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Reply: Mice and Mystics:: Rules:: Re: Using a Scroll
by Cranekick
I found this thread while looking up rule clarifications. The developer of the game also verified the answer.http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/875769/scroll-cards
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Reply: Mice and Mystics:: Reviews:: Re: Not a game for everyone
DavidT wrote:
Grahamers2002 wrote:
DavidT wrote:
Grahamers2002 wrote:
Where in the rule book or FAQ does it answer the question, "Do you start at the top of the initiative order if you have a new encounter, but there are minions already on the tiles, or do you continue from the players whose turn it was when the encounter was triggered?"
It sounds like you want to assume that you start at the top of the initiative order, and you are faulting the rulebook for not supporting your assumption. Why wouldn't you just continue from the last mouse's turn (that triggered the encounter)?
I am not assuming either. I am pointing out that the rule book doesn't say which way to play it.
But it does. It tells you how to set up the initiative track, and it tells you that mice and minions take turns in descending order, based on the track. By wondering whether to start over at the beginning of the initiative order, you are creating an ambiguity in the rules that does not exist.
Just continue from the last mouse's turn (i.e., follow the letter of the rules as written).
Good points, all. COWTRA gets you very far, indeed.
However, it is not the be-all and end-all of interpretation.
For example, where does it say in the rule book that you start a new round and, thus, start at the 1st initiative slot when resetting the order by shuffling all the initiative cards, including the mice?
It doesn't say that you do that. The RAW only say that a new round begins when the last initiative card has take a turn. So a new round doesn't start. So, using COWTRA as you suggest, you either keep playing from the initiative slot where you left off or from the mouse where you left off. Which one?
Well, it turns out it is neither. Jerry says you DO start a new round when you have a new encounter after there were no minions on the board. (http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/9355662#9355662)
So if Jerry is now saying that a new round starts after an encounter where no minions were present when the rules do not say to do this, what else is wrong with the rules?
So, to my main point: why did it take Jerry to clarify this in the first place. Why is his explanation in 100% contradiction to the steps that ARE listed in the rule book. I believe that the answer is something like "Because whomever wrote the RAW made many assumptions that are not expressed in the rules." Rounds and turns are CORE mechanics and, given Jerry's posts, aren't explained well at all in the rule book. Where a round IS defined...it is wrong.
Just look tot he "how many abilities may be used in a round" threads for another example of a core mechanic that was never explained well in the rule book.
My point is not that this is a bad game. I like it very much! (I played it all last night.) My point is that it is filled with ambiguities which shouldn't have happened. Of course games will have some ambiguities, usually where special powers or abilities alter the rules and then you combine those powers in interesting ways.
However, this is a relatively simple game. Issues such as "what is a round and when does a new one start" and "what is a 'Special' search card...the Rule Book doesn't define it" and "how is the use of abilities limited" are very basic.
Love the game, hate the rule book.
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Reply: Mice and Mystics:: Rules:: Re: Using a Scroll
by Dr Brian
Thanks for the rule link. So scrolls don't take up any action, even one of the free actions. So these are super-duper free actions. :)↧
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Reply: Mice and Mystics:: Reviews:: Re: Not a game for everyone
by DavidT
Grahamers2002 wrote:
DavidT wrote:
Grahamers2002 wrote:
DavidT wrote:
Grahamers2002 wrote:
Where in the rule book or FAQ does it answer the question, "Do you start at the top of the initiative order if you have a new encounter, but there are minions already on the tiles, or do you continue from the players whose turn it was when the encounter was triggered?"
It sounds like you want to assume that you start at the top of the initiative order, and you are faulting the rulebook for not supporting your assumption. Why wouldn't you just continue from the last mouse's turn (that triggered the encounter)?
I am not assuming either. I am pointing out that the rule book doesn't say which way to play it.
But it does. It tells you how to set up the initiative track, and it tells you that mice and minions take turns in descending order, based on the track. By wondering whether to start over at the beginning of the initiative order, you are creating an ambiguity in the rules that does not exist.
Just continue from the last mouse's turn (i.e., follow the letter of the rules as written).
Good points, all. COWTRA gets you very far, indeed.
However, it is not the be-all and end-all of interpretation.
For example, where does it say in the rule book that you start a new round and, thus, start at the 1st initiative slot when resetting the order by shuffling all the initiative cards, including the mice?
It doesn't say that you do that. The RAW only say that a new round begins when the last initiative card has take a turn. So a new round doesn't start. So, using COWTRA as you suggest, you either keep playing from the initiative slot where you left off or from the mouse where you left off. Which one?
Well, it turns out it is neither. Jerry says you DO start a new round when you have a new encounter after there were no minions on the board. (http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/9355662#9355662)
I guess I am confused about what you're saying. Maybe this is my fault, since I have only limited experience with the game.
I thought the question was where to start after a new encounter takes place with existing minions on the board. In that scenario, the rules are very clear that the new encounter minions are shuffled and added to the end of the track. And, as far as I recall, they are also clear that play then continues from the last mouse/minion turn (because none of the existing mice or minions have been shuffled/reset).
In the case of an encounter where there are no minions on the board, all of the cards are shuffled. The rules say that you do this to determine order of initiative. I don't have the book in front of me, so I can't check to see if there is any explicit instruction to then start at the top of the initiative track. But, at the very worst, the proper play (which is supported by the designer in the thread you linked) is obvious by implication. If you are determining initiative order, you are determining who goes first. Once you've determined who goes first (i.e., the mouse/minion at the top of the track), that figure goes first. Very simple.
It seems like a really extreme stretch to turn such a simple mechanic into an ambiguity. I also disagree that the number of abilities playable per turn is in any way ambiguous. It's right there in the rulebook: One ability per turn.
Edit: Also, just to satisfy my curiosity... what is COWTRA?
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Reply: Mice and Mystics:: Rules:: Re: Using a Scroll
by Cranekick
Correct. Most scrolls are free actions, but if the scroll indicates you need to take a certain type of action to use it, that would override the free action rule.↧
Reply: Mice and Mystics:: Reviews:: Re: Not a game for everyone
by youperguy
A couple things to highlight:1) PHG payed Rodney Smith to do the Rules walkthrough for the game. Rodney does a great job in showing how to play the game. The cover of the rulebook shows you how to access Rodney's video. This means that anyone can play the game, even if the rulebook is poorly organized. Just watch the videos which are excellent.
2) Jerry is more available then any other designer on BGG to answer questions. So much so that people ask questions all the time knowing that he will answer. This means that instead of looking for answers in the rules or FAQ, people throw out questions to Jerry, since he is so available and so nice that he answers questions that are in the rules and in the FAQ.
3) Since this is a co-op it doesn't matter if you get a side case incorrect. Who are you cheating? No one. Play the way that is most fun to you and don't worry about the details. If it is more fun to bend the rules and powergame do that. If it is more fun to limit yourself, do that even if it is stricter then Jerry intended.
4) Where you start on the initiative track after a reshuffle doesn't matter. Since it is random, it makes no difference if you start with slot 4 or slot 1. So the fact that Jerry intends for you to go back to slot 1 doesn't matter. Yes, I agree, it should be stated in the rules or FAQ, but as far as gameplay goes it makes zero difference.
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Reply: Mice and Mystics:: Rules:: Re: Using a Scroll
by Dr Brian
Got it ... the car overides all. ;)↧
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Thread: Mice and Mystics:: Rules:: Dinner Fork Question.
by TravmacDaddy
When I use the dinner fork to catapult someone can I use their move action as the action to catapult them or do I have to use their battle or explore action?↧
Reply: Mice and Mystics:: Reviews:: Re: Not a game for everyone
by Omega2064
DavidT wrote:
It seems like a really extreme stretch to turn such a simple mechanic into an ambiguity. I also disagree that the number of abilities playable per turn is in any way ambiguous. It's right there in the rulebook: One ability per turn.
Edit: Also, just to satisfy my curiosity... what is COWTRA?
Edit: Also, just to satisfy my curiosity... what is COWTRA?
The rules do not state that the mice cannot fly. Thusly this means that the mice can fly.
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Reply: Mice and Mystics:: Rules:: Re: Dinner Fork Question.
by RMGreen
My reading is that it takes the mouse's 'Standard' action (Battle, Explore, Search, etc). A mouse's 'Move' isn't explicitly labeled as an action in the rules, so I don't think it would apply to the dinner fork.↧
Thread: Mice and Mystics:: Rules:: Meeps questions
by trydling
Hi all, a few Meeps/ability questions:1) Is the following legal?
1: Maginos uses Meeps ability on enemy.
2: Next up is Nez, who attacks the meepsed enemy and uses Battle Squeak. He rolls an extra attack die, and the enemy rolls one less defense die.
Legal, or does it violate the "Ome ability per mouse and turn" rule?
2) Does Meeps follow an enemy that moves from its original placement?
3) If you place Meeps in an empty space trying to predict enemy movement, will enemies avoid that space if there are multiple options to reach viable targets?
Thanks!
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Reply: Mice and Mystics:: Rules:: Re: Meeps questions
by RMGreen
1) Yes. The ability was used on Maginos' turn. It's effect still applies on other turns. However, you could not use Meeps on Maginos's turn and then have Maginos use another ability like Mystic Bolt.2) I'd say no, Meeps is stationary. I have no rules-based reasoning for this except that the card doesn't say he DOES move, so I think he doesn't.
3) You can't place Meeps on an empty space. The ability card explicitly says that he must be placed under a minion.
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Reply: Mice and Mystics:: Rules:: Re: Meeps questions
by trydling
Thanks a lot!↧
Reply: Mice and Mystics:: Rules:: Re: Meeps questions
Meeps is just a ladybug why wouldn't he move with the target?
Placing his marker underneath just represents that he is on a particular enemy. That is how I see it.
Placing his marker underneath just represents that he is on a particular enemy. That is how I see it.
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Reply: Mice and Mystics:: Rules:: Re: Meeps questions
by Woelf
RMGreen wrote:
2) I'd say no, Meeps is stationary. I have no rules-based reasoning for this except that the card doesn't say he DOES move, so I think he doesn't.
3) You can't place Meeps on an empty space. The ability card explicitly says that he must be placed under a minion.
3) You can't place Meeps on an empty space. The ability card explicitly says that he must be placed under a minion.
Placing the Meeps token "under" the minion is just how you show which one Meeps is attached to; it's no different from placing the Elite Rat or Vurst marker under a rat minion to designate that it has special conditions above and beyond a standard rat.
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Reply: Mice and Mystics:: Rules:: Re: Dinner Fork Question.
by Hahma
Move is not considered an action. So you would have to use the catapult as an action in place of battle, scurry, search or explore etc.↧
Reply: Mice and Mystics:: Rules:: Re: What are the most commonly misplayed rules? Here's what we did wrong...
by Cranekick
Grahamers2002 wrote:
oldschoolgamr wrote:
One big one we didn't notice till about four or five chapters in was the limitation on mice during the targeting of ranged attacks...
If we had a group of mice under attack by adjacent melee units and some ranged units pelting us from afar, we always used our ranged attacks to clear out the far away minions, since the others in our party could attack the one's close up later on.
This is not how the rules are written - actually, if there is a minion in the same space or adjacent to a ranged attacking mouse, that ranged attack MUST target one of the closer enemies - not something far away...
This makes combat a bit more challenging as something like Elite Rats will last a bit longer on the board unless you are careful about movement - which isolates those lower health/AC mice to unprotected attacks...
Simply - but oh, so elegant (nice job Jerry!)
OSG
If we had a group of mice under attack by adjacent melee units and some ranged units pelting us from afar, we always used our ranged attacks to clear out the far away minions, since the others in our party could attack the one's close up later on.
This is not how the rules are written - actually, if there is a minion in the same space or adjacent to a ranged attacking mouse, that ranged attack MUST target one of the closer enemies - not something far away...
This makes combat a bit more challenging as something like Elite Rats will last a bit longer on the board unless you are careful about movement - which isolates those lower health/AC mice to unprotected attacks...
Simply - but oh, so elegant (nice job Jerry!)
OSG
I missed this one, too! When I read your post, I went back and checked and found that youw ere 100% right. Once I read it, I remembered reading it before, but it had dropped out of my mind. For the record, here is the rule:
Rule book, page 11 wrote:
Ranged attack
If a mouse is armed with a ranged weapon or
spell, it can perform a ranged attack. Ranged
attacks are performed in the same way as
melee attacks, except each bow symbol
counts as a hit instead of the sword or sword/
shield symbol. Also, when selecting a target
for the attack, a player can select any minion
on the same room tile as the attacking mouse
as long as that mouse can ‘see’ the target. However,
if there are minions in the same or adjacent space as the
mouse, one of those nearby minions must be selected as
the target of the attack.
If a mouse is armed with a ranged weapon or
spell, it can perform a ranged attack. Ranged
attacks are performed in the same way as
melee attacks, except each bow symbol
counts as a hit instead of the sword or sword/
shield symbol. Also, when selecting a target
for the attack, a player can select any minion
on the same room tile as the attacking mouse
as long as that mouse can ‘see’ the target. However,
if there are minions in the same or adjacent space as the
mouse, one of those nearby minions must be selected as
the target of the attack.
(Emphasis mine.)
To add to this rule, I also read a clarification for the range attacking minions. Minions are also limited to attacking Mice who are in the same square or adjacent to them, however once the mouse in their square/adjacent square has been hit, they would attack the NEXT closest, even if they are not in their square or adjacent.
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Thread: Mice and Mystics:: Rules:: Do you place a cheese token on the cheese wheel EVERY time you roll cheese?
by Tysonxy
So I've played M&M 3 times now. The first time I just played by myself to get a feel for the game and the rules. I put a cheese token on the wheel every time I rolled a cheese as the rules seem to say. The result was I didn't even get close to go is I g the first scenario. So when I replayed it and the next scenario with my kids we decided to only place the cheese on the wheel during combat rolls. But now it seems too easy.So how does everyone else play? Did I just get a lot of really bad rolls the first time through?
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